Editor’s Note:?The China-US relations are now faced with unprecedented difficulties and challenges. Will the world’s two largest economies decouple as some US politicians expect? David Gosset, the founder of Europe-China Forum, discussed with Joan McEntee, former Under Secretary of US Department of Commerce and CEO of MKBC. McEntee visited China many times over the years and pays close attention to US-China relations.

A Time of Collaboration, hosted by Mr. Gosset, is a high-level dialogue with international veteran diplomats, business elites and outstanding scholars. The serial interviews are presented by China Focus in association with DG2CI Limited.

David Gosset: Joan, it’s really great to have this opportunity to have this conversation with you for A Time of Collaboration, because it seems to us that in the world in which we live, collaboration is very important, I would even say, indispensable. But we wanted to ask you Joan because you have such an extraordinary experience and expertise. From your perspective, why do you think collaboration matters so much?

Joan McEntee: I think that it is, as you said, absolutely essential. Number one, there is such an economic interdependence between the countries that collaboration cannot be forgotten or put aside. The founding of the relationship actually was based on an economic relationship, and that has triple-doubled. China has grown into a superpower. Those are aspects of the relationship that can’t be put aside, and it shouldn’t be. China isn’t going backwards. People have to understand that. They are not going to be forced into some sort of a revolution because people think that’s what should happen. It is a time to collaborate and also to try to solve some of the world’s biggest problems. We have just been faced with one of the biggest problems that the world has ever come across. And unfortunately, this is potentially a precursor of what’s to come. And the political instability that comes out of a lack of collaboration can be absolutely deleterious and absolutely dangerous. So, when we say the need for collaboration, it’s not just in the economic area. It’s also in the political area and in the cultural area, and certainly, certainly in the health area.

David Gosset: Yes, Joan, I was telling the viewers that you have very deep, wide experience, and also especially in the field of business. How do you see the role of companies, the role of the business community, from that angle of collaboration?

Joan McEntee: Do you know, in 1776, right after during our War of Independence, we turned to China? And it was a trade issue that we turned to China on, because we couldn’t get any more British tea. So, we started looking at China. That was the basis of our business relationship. And things in terms of economics and trade and business have never stopped. Business is a driver of economic well-being. It’s a driver of growth. It’s a driver of a way that people can improve and better their lives. And that kind of collaboration is essential. Do you know when you play a basketball game, the umpire blows the whistle. You can’t undo that whistle being blown. And that’s what business recognizes and contributes. I think also in this time of difficulties between the countries, I believe that trade and business will lead us out of this valley and back to a positive relationship.

David Gosset: Yes, I think you’re right Joan, the role of business is absolutely essential in this configuration. And in fact, you know China very well because you have been doing many things with China, and you have been very successful, Joan. And what in your mind are the ingredients to succeed when you are dealing with China? Because it seems to me, I ask you this question, Joan, because it seems to me that the world, the West and so many people in the United States of America do not understand China enough. So, your experiences, what you are going to say is important.

Joan McEntee: Well, thank you. I always say, when I’m dealing with China and when I talk about my dealings in China, I always say there are two qualities to the relationship as you try to form relationships with Chinese. And those are trust and respect. When I first started dealing with China, I explained to those in China, when I would bring businesses from the US and the West to do business in China, I would promise them, and I have lived by this ever since I’ve been doing it, that I would bring them only entities, only companies that were willing to give as well as get something. It wouldn’t be the kind of companies that were there to just take, but also contribute to either the livelihood or the economic well-being or the health or development. Those were kind of things. And I have lived by that. So that when I ask something from the Chinese leadership or the government or the people with whom I’m dealing, I make it clear that this is a two-way street. They have to benefit and not economically only, but in a lot of ways.

Joan McEntee: The other thing is honesty. And I have also followed that trait, hopefully that quality. And I’ve been very upfront. There are many times where I’ve told my Chinese colleagues I disagree. I disagree on issues of concern, of where I think there is unfairness being shown, lack of respect from that side. I’m very honest. But at the same time, I’m very honest also in those areas that I am critical about, not to be unfair as well. And I think that has made a difference. Plus, in fact, I think personal relationships are very, very important. And maybe it’s because we are Americans and we have a tendency to be very forthcoming. And I love the Chinese sense of humor, which is often similar to my own. But not being fearful of developing those close relationships with Chinese leaderships or colleagues I think is also very key. Getting to know another culture is a demanding process, but a critical one.

David Gosset: Thank you so much, Joan. We will think about your vision. And I think the values you have presented are absolutely essential. And we need you, Joan, to continue the work you have been doing because you said, yes, personal relationships are absolutely essential, therefore people-to-people relations. But at this moment when some people are talking again and again about decoupling, there is the danger that we face this vicious circle. Mistrust brings decoupling, and decoupling brings more mistrust. And we need to get out of this vicious circle to come back to a virtuous circle, which should be about trust, corporation, corporation bringing more trust, and trust bringing more cooperation. And you are part of this very important equation. We need strong China-US relations for the Chinese people, for American people, but also for the world. So, thank you very much to be supportive in this time of collaboration, for more collaboration. Thank you very much.

Joan McEntee: You are very welcome, David. And thank you again for having me.